My Inner Conflict with ‘The Dark Knight’
Author: Lucas
July 24th, 2008
Hey the big boss of KFR is in San Diego so he asked me, Lucas, the true commissioner of Gotham, to guest blog for him for a few days.
My first order of business is to push out a Top 5 list of what irked me about The Dark Knight movie - nitpicks if you will - but none the less they brought me out of the story. I did enjoy it, but I can’t by any means call it a masterpiece:
if you haven’t seen it stay away from the spoiler heavy text below:
1. Lack of Action - where was all that cool tight Krav Maga martial arts from Batman Begins? The 2 fights I remember were very weird - one of them was in a full room of people at the Harvey Dent fundraiser party where the Joker walks in and in a brightly lit room Batman shows up - in front of all his friends, no less and gets his assed kicked. Huh? That scene pulled me out of the story.
The second one was when Batman was beating up people in a night club…another ‘huh?’ moment. Also not enough of the batmobile and the batpod cycle thing which was cool.
2. The whole Hong Kong sequence - yup, we really needed to see Bats catch the accountant otherwise it wouldn’t have made sense.
3. Harvey becomes Two-Face pretty quickly - Not only does the man who has had the flesh and hair burned off his face, and takes NO pain medication for it run around the streets of Gotham hours after the tragedy but, basically is flipped by the Joker in 2 minutes to go against everything he stood for in the first 2 hours of the movie??!!! I didn’t mind that the Joker could break him but I was hoping it would take more than a face melting and a dead girlfriend after they set him up as this white knight character - Batman wouldn’t have broken so quickly. The only reason I do kind of let this go is for the sake of the allotted time of the movie…but again if #2 was cut you could have had 10 more minutes of Harvey truly becoming Two Face.
4. Not Enough Batman - TDK reminded me more of Batman Returns where Bats is relegated to a supporting character so that the Penguin and Catwoman can have more screen time. TDK felt the same way
5. The Unphased Batman Body - I don’t care how good his bat-suit is at absorbing shock, this happened twice in the movie and pulled me out completely, the first time is when Batman goes down with the batpod, Gordon comes out and nabs the Joker but huh? Where did Batman go - he just isn’t there anymore…and what happened to the bike? The second time is at the very end when both Bats and Two Face fall and in total amazement I saw Bats get up and actually run away.
The thing is they tried so hard to make it realistic and yet it made all the unrealistic stuff look even worse. The fact that Joker didn’t kill anyone in the camera’s view (yes I know its PG-13) and that 2 grown men are having a chat on the roof with a guy in a bat-suit, c’mon that is just the silliest thing ever, especially in the context of this “Nolan-verse.” You can’t have it both ways, set the rules and follow them or else teetering back and forth isn’t fair.
In my mind, this was NOT a comic book movie, just like Transformers isn’t a “toy movie.” Other than the fact that it has Batman in it, everything else about the comic was changed - Joker and Two Faces origin specifically - I felt like I was watching a Halloween version of The Untouchables (one of my favorite movies) with Joker as Al Capone and Two Face as Elliot Ness with Batman sprinkled in there to remind you that it is in fact a Batman movie. This is also kind of how many felt about last year’s Transformers movie, why exactly was it called Transformers? Only the names and 1 voice were the same, they should have called it Michael Bay’s Robot Wars instead. At least Batman Begins followed more of the comic story than this one…
Or forget all this and I’m as two-faced as Harvey Dent, I did love it and this might just be nitpicking because of what I was hoping the movie would be. Jack Nicholson, while a bit overweight for the character, brought the “comic book” Joker to life - his performance in the 1989 movie and his plot was pulled right out of the comic. So I guess my problem with The Dark Knight was that it was too far from the source for my taste, and everyone knows I am the furthest thing from a ‘purist’ you will ever find.
To balance it out the 5 things I did love:
1. Bale’s Batman voice: anyone who has a problem with this has never dressed up at Halloween and gone to a party with friends…
2. Two-Face CG face was great and Joker’s make-up, especially when it was running down his face, was amazing.
3. Busting the Scarecrow at the beginning - he did ride off crazy on a horse in the first one.
4. That The Batman is now seen as the villain - which is the way he should have always been. I hate the part when he kicks all the CSI out of the room. Imagine if that happened on The Wire?
5. Rachel Dawes died - someone had to - I was thinking Lucius but it makes sense they killed the girl. But after that whole cellphone craziness at the end, maybe they should have killed him.
Anyways, I’d love to hear from you dear reader - I found it very hard to find any negative remarks about this movie anywhere online - but I’m sure there are some people who feel like me out there? Maybe?
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15 Responses to “My Inner Conflict with ‘The Dark Knight’”







July 24th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Hey man, just for fun, here are my responses to your criticisms:
1. Lack of Action - It might have been somewhat light on Batman kicking-ass-centric action, but I thought it did a pretty amazing job at keeping a steady pace of action throughout. Does the opening bank robbery, a great scene, count as action? The Joker blowing up the hospital? The awesome car chase? It might have had less fisticuffs, but it wasn’t light on action. I’d argue it had more setpieces than Batman Begins did.
2. The whole Hong Kong sequence - This kind of contradicts your first point. This was a killer action scene, that also helps illustrate one of the themes of the movie — what happens when you bend or break your moral rules? Harvey Dent and Gordon couldn’t get this guy legally, so they send Batman in. This later escalates to spying on every citizen Gotham, and ends with Harvey Dent being completely corrupted.
3. Harvey becomes Two-Face pretty quickly - Points like this are hard to argue, cause if something didn’t work for you logically, I can’t convince you. But I believed it. First, Harvey sends Batman to HK. Next, he abducts one of the Joker’s goons, threatens to kill him, but is stopped by Bats. And finally he’s driven over the edge. I thought the tragedy of Harvey Dent is what really made this movie. But then, I’m one of the people calling it a masterpiece.
4. Not Enough Batman - Maybe, but this was really an ensemble piece, and it’s hard for me to argue against the whole. This move is really about Gordon, Dent, and Batman — not just Batman.
5. The Unphased Batman Body — well, as for falling and getting up, he was wearing some pretty kick ass armor, whereas Harvey was wearing nothing. I’d imagine that the Batsuit could handle that drop. And if I remember, the scene where Bats crashes the bike and Gordon arrests Joker, it ends pretty fast. Who cares where Batman went? Maybe he just “disappeared” as he usually does, maybe he was still on the ground. Does that really matter?
July 24th, 2008 at 7:48 am
You make some great points Lucas. I would add to that (sort of in line with not enough batpod/batmobile), not enough technology/weapons overall.
They make a point of showing you the ejectable knives on his gauntlets and then save it for a shot at the very end. But then, somehow, the Joker doesn’t have any sticking out of him while he’s swinging upside down and no noticeable scars. Huh?
I guess you can’t really win with this. Either they go overboard with the bat-a-rang, batmobile, etc. or they don’t show enough. I have the same problems with the Bond flicks.
I’m also with you on the action. Not nearly enough ass kicking. Basically, I want to see a prolonged They Live/Matrix II fight scene with Batman and some major baddies. I did, however, love the Batman dangling Maroni scene.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Daniel - thanks for your comments, I’m sure my mind will change when I see it on DVD:
1. Action - I guess my action is martial arts action…but its not that I wanted cliche fighting of the 2 baddies at the end but I just loved the non-showy martial arts of the first one.
2. HK Scene - Ok it was action-y, but I still don’t think it was necessary. Just a nice to have.
3. Yup, I think you buy his quick change from the White Knight or you don’t…if Batman was willing to give up his mission as Batman for Harvey, then I would hope that Harvey was made of sterner stuff. Maybe that more than his death, was what was lost in this story. Batman’s faith.
4. I guess that’s what it was called The Dark Knight and not Batman Again. To show that its not all about Bats…but I really came to see Batman.
5. The armour I believe at the beginning of the movie was meant to be more flexible and that it wouldn’t take the impact of a bullet or the sharpness of a knife…so I don’t buy the shock-absorption. Even if I did, he should be hobbling away to the bike instead of full sprint.
As for the batpod, he just skids out, Gordon pops out, the whole set-up is thanks to Batman and we don’t see what happens - the next time we see Batman, what the??? He’s already in the interrogation cell with the Joker and standing behind him the whole time Gordon is talking to him…? It was cool, but I thought this was “realistic” take on Batman.
John- thanks for your comments as well.
yes we all want to see Batman’s gadgets and tech - we didn’t even see him swing anywhere. The sonar eyes don’t count…
I agree its hard to do this but I think a few more gadgets would have been OK - especially the bat-shurikens since he used them the first time, the bat-heel that called the bats - all cool stuff, and not totally unrealistic…
Yes, the Maroni sequence was awesome, Eric Roberts deserved it ;-) that was an example of a perfect Batman sequence - he was badass, in character and no patience to get his answers. I did love that hunt for The Joker, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Batman run out of ways to catch someone in the comics, but then again this was shortly after Batman Begins.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:52 am
you mentioned Jack’s Joker as the “comic book” Joker and that’s not 100% accurate only because the “comic book” Joker at least since the mid-’80s has been pretty psychotic. Jack’s Joker was tame compared to Heath’s Joker. I find Heath’s performance to be a closer representation of the Joker from the Comic Books. I honestly can’t make a list of faults that this movie has. My major complaint with Begins and TDK is that the Rachel Dawes character should’ve never existed at all. Her character was unimportant in the first film. They should’ve just used a name of real character that Bruce dated in the comics.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Holy crap. I love you. Everyone and their dog loves this movie. I was not mystified by this movie and it awesome to see someone being vocal about their dislikes for it.
I’ve had to defend my life this whole last week trying to explain to people why I dont like the movie. (They’ve since branded me with a scarlet letter and banned me from the multiplex, but hey….)
I would take Jack over Ledger any time, personally. (Not sure how people think Jack’s Joker was tame- the guy threw a feathered pen into a guys throat in front of a crowd-tame? Nah.) Though i do suppose these are different times and call for different tastes.
Hellboy Deux was my summer smile-movie.
July 24th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Hi Jay -
The Joker debate will rage on forever - Jack almost killed the entire Gotham City with smilex. Heath let people decide if they should blow each other up or not. I think even Ra’s potential death count was higher than Heath Joker.
Heath Joker seemed like a thug - which he was called several times in the film - and what I would find in the comic as a “copycat” Joker.
The Joker has style and pizzaz, bravado and humour - the comic Joker tried to copyright fish with a smile on them and then killed the copyright clerk who wouldnt do it. That resembles the Jack Joker so much closer. He deemed himself the first “homicidal artist” and wanted Vicki Vale to follow him around and take pictures of his work. He had a conversation with a man he just killed and most importantly he ALWAYS, ALWAYS had a smile on his face.
The producers needed a girl character that was attached to Bruce Wayne’s childhood - so they had to create a new character. The only complaint I have about Rachel Dawes is that Katie Holmes-Cruise for whatever lame reason didnt come back for TDK - because I know alot of people who didnt even know Maggie was playing the same character - and when she dies or kisses Bruce its not as strong because we didn’t see the connection from the first one…but I blame Tom for this.
I hope Ving Rhames plus out of M:I4 to make Mad Money 2, and see how Tom feels about that!
July 24th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Hi Dom - I can only guess you are a bit older than most of the kids who didn’t grow up on The Shining and One Flew Over…
Also to add to the Joker debate - Heath Joker worked perfectly in the film, but wouldn’t it be crazy if someone tried to do a mash-up of TDK and Batman 1989? That would be nuts - I mean look at the photo I grabbed for the top of this story - he looks like he would make me laugh before stabbing me whereas Heath Joker would just tell me a fake story and then kill me.
I’m still waiting to see Hellboy 2.
Sometimes a scarlet letter is needed to, in Batman’s words, “rattle the cage.”
July 24th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Wow - I didn’t think I’d ever find an opinion so similar to mine. I think there are alot more of us non-belivers in The Dark Knight than you would think. But they are scared of being ostracized by everyone and their dog ;-)
July 25th, 2008 at 4:00 am
I really liked the nightclub scene. Straight out of the comics. The international travel also seems like a comics nod.
I for one don’t understand why the batpod accident knocked out of commission. Seemed kind of weak!
July 25th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Hi William - glad you came out to say your bit. Don’t be shy, if that is your real name ;-)
Matt - I am glad they took Batman out of Gotham as he does do it in the comic and shows that Gotham is actually a place on earth and not in a fishbowl - but I guess it was better played in Batman Begins when he starts out in rural Asia and works his way back to Gotham for a nice juxtapose. HK actually looks like Gotham, so if there wasn’t any Chinese faces in those shots it could have still been Chicago.
If you didn’t like the batpod being knocked out, then don’t watch the 1989 movie - the Joker shot down the batplane with one bullet from an extremely exaggerated gun. And so, in a way, I thought the batpod take down was a homage to that - because it was almost the same shot, with the Joker on one side of a long street and Batman skidding right into him.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I agree with you Lucas. I had a hard time with the movie overall, I liked it, but it had a whole bunch of problems for me.
1. Way too long, could have chopped an hour out and would have been fine. I would have been thrilled if they used some of that time to develope Dent into Two face way better. Chop Hong Kong and the Scarecrow part and I would have been happier
2. Not enough Batman for me. Too much Joker, Maggie G, and general villans.
3. Not enough martial arts! Could not agree with you more. The fight scenes were ok compared to Batman Begins.
4. The joker, I prefer Jack and still feel he did a better job of portraying what the joker is to me. I really feel Heath is getting all the adoration due to his death. He was great in parts, but I got real tired of the “Why so serious?” line, when he as the joker was nothing but serious. The joker has twisted fun as he goes about his work!
5. Too long!
6. The Bat sonar gave me a headache. For people that saw this in an IMAX it had to be worse.
I very much prefered Iron Man and Hellboy 2 over this movie. Again I liked it but its far from my favorite this year.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Thanks Someguy - everyone is coming forward like some strange AA meeting.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Unlike Begins, I didn’t have any nitpicks. Okay, maybe I still don’t care for Joker’s hair and makeup, but the character was perfect otherwise, so I just don’t care anymore about that one.
Still, I thought everything was spot on. I thought the action was great. Sure, less fight scenes and more chases and hostage situations, but I felt that kept the movie going too. More suspense and less fighting, I didn’t mind it.
Batman going international was pretty neat. Harvey seemed a bit crazy under it all, so I can see why he snapped. As for not enough Batman, I didn’t miss him. I felt they had to show how Gotham was changing around him. Plus at least we have some good supporting characters that are worth spending time on.
I don’t get where this didn’t feel like a Batman comic. There have been so many over the years. This was more like Year One than Long Halloween in tone and realism, but it still was recognizable. The characters seem familiar. I even felt some scenes were spot on. The scene with the three of them on the roof was perfect to me. I know they couldn’t use all of Long Halloween, but that scene was nice to see.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
You didn’t miss Batman in a movie about Batman? Means he’s either not that interesting or else maybe we’ll be seeing Iron Man 2 with the main characters of War Machine and the Mandarin guest starring Tony Stark next.
Its not that it wasn’t like a Batman comic - it was that they wanted to go more realistic with it and taking away the comic book ideas with it. As a reader of the Long Halloween you know the real background of Two-Face…its the same problem I had with Wanted - why call it that when only the first 20 mins were like the comic at all.
July 26th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Whoops, I meant I didn’t understand how Bats got knocked out by the Batpod getting tipped over. I suppose he was just “playing dead”?